[CRS_META] declined: crsociety - no trim / personal message

[Tim C.]

Hi Meta,   My off-list message is below.   -Tim C.



> Hi Adam,
>
> This was forwarded to Bob off-list.
>
> Generally, we prefer short, personal messages sent off-list when
> practical.  Also, trimming posts is requested as that cuts down
> on material sent out to the list (over 1600 readers):
>
> FYI, these are the posting guidelines:
> http://www.calorierestriction.org/node/130
>
> -Tim C. (one of the CRS Moderators)
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "adam lamparello"
> To: "The CR Society Main Discussion List" <cr at lists.calorierestriction.org>
> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 7:25 AM
> Subject: Re: [CR] Every Calorie is Toxic
>
>
>> Hi Robert,
>>
>>  Thanks for your insights. They provided me with some important (and much-needed) perspective.
>>
>>  Best regards,
>>  Adam
>>
>> ROBERT CAVANAUGH <papilio28570 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> --- adam lamparello wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Robert,
>>>
>>> Where I disagree with many posters is when the
>>> CR diet is utilized for the primary purpose of
>>> increasing lifespan, a premise that, as humans, we
>>> cannot empirically support, particularly given the
>>> myriad of external (and internal) factors that I
>>> mentioned in my prior email.
>>
>> You won't get an argument from me on that. Although a
>> nice dream that human longevity is achievable via CR,
>> lacking the empirical evidence places the premise in
>> the camp of hope. But hope is, in and of itself, an
>> internal support system and probably keeps many folks
>> adherent to a CR lifestyle. Though longevity is not
>> my primary focus for practicing CR, I do have hope
>> that my rate of aging is being slowed because there is
>> animal evidence to support such hope. If health was
>> my only focus, I'd be on a typical health diet and
>> likely eat more calories then what I currently
>> consume.
>>
>>> I do believe that a
>>> plant-based diet, mindful eating, and daily physical
>>> activity (both structured and unstructured, i.e.,
>>> non-exercise activity thermogenesis, or a lifestyle
>>> that is activity-oriented, nature-based and holistic
>>> (namely, focusing on mind-body integration, a unique
>>> roadmap to inner peace and happines and avoidance of
>>> the many traps of modern American lifestyle),
>>> necessarily leads to a diet that contains reduced
>>> calories.
>>
>> Wow! Too many thoughts within thoughts in that
>> sentence. I need a road map :) However, I don't
>> believe that a plant based diet (which I read
>> "vegetarian", if that is your meaning) is necessarily
>> required. I don't understand the term "mindful
>> eating" though. If you are referring to placing
>> yourself into some meditative state while eating as
>> part of your "mind-body integration", I think I'll
>> stick to having my cigar and cognac on the porch at
>> night. That is when I relax and sort the day out and
>> lay down the road map for tomorrow. But, all else
>> aside, yes, a plant based diet does lead to a diet
>> that contains reduced calories, assuming one was not
>> eating a plant based diet previously.
>>
>>> In other words, a CR diet can, and for
>>> some will, enhance
>>> quality of life, provided it is done for the right
>>> purpose and merely one component of a individualized
>>> plan designed to improve quality of life, rather
>>> than done for the purpose, or hope, of
>>> increasing longevity per se.
>>
>> Agreed that a CR diet can enhance quality of life
>> (QOL)if not taken too far. Especially so if started
>> as an overweight or obese person. But to suggest that
>> QOL can not be enhanced via CR practiced specifically
>> for the purpose of longevity is wrong. Why wouldn't
>> QOL be enhanced under that premise? Should only
>> health be pursued and hope of age retardation cast
>> aside?
>>
>>
>>> While a longer lifespan
>>> may follow as a logical consequence, I think the
>>> emphasis on this factor is misplaced.
>>
>> How can longer lifespan be a logical consequence if
>> you started out stating there was no empirical
>> evidence to support this? Under the ground rules you
>> laid down, longevity would be a serendipitous
>> consequence.
>>
>>
>>> I'm happy for
>>> the benefits you've derived from CR and personally,
>>> I've derived the same benefits, having gone from
>>> obesity to thinness and a heightened state of
>>> physical fitness and mental (particularly creative)
>>> clarity.
>>
>> Man! I can surely relate to the improvement in
>> mental clarity as well.
>>
>>> But I will ask you one thing: isn't it
>>> difficult to lead the type of lives we lead in the
>>> face of so many people (and institutions) in this
>>> country that seem to de-emphasize individuality,
>>> health, the inherent dignity of the individual, and
>>> the fundamental value of a life that embraces
>>> nature, the little things, and the simplicity (and
>>> truth) that nature offers?
>>
>> No, Adam. It is not difficult. Think of yourself as
>> one plant in the middle of a vast jungle. You have to
>> compete to thrive and survive. That is the primal
>> natural law of life. Also, remember that the only
>> fish that go with the flow are the dead ones. So if
>> you find yourself struggling against the tide it
>> simply means you aren't dead. You see a different
>> course. Not necessarily a better one, but a different
>> one. And as the song goes, don't go chasing
>> waterfalls.
>>
>>> I find it frustrating in
>>> the extreme. Sometimes I feel so isolated and
>>> detached.
>>
>> We build our own prisons, brick by brick, and soon
>> enough, we are detached and isolated. Rather than
>> pondering the meaning of life and why we are here, it
>> is best to get out and enjoy life and being here now
>> in this human era. It is all you have and your time
>> here is limited. Don't squander it on wishful
>> thinking or rage against the machine. Your life will
>> be an endless series of unanswerable questions
>> otherwise. If you can find but one answer to one
>> question during your life, you haven't lived in vain,
>> so chose your question wisely. And always be mindful
>> that only you are responsible for your own happiness.
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>
>>
>>
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