[CRS_META] declined: crsociety - no trim/off-topic

[Tim C.]

My off-list message is below.
-Tim C.


Hi Dyan,

Regarding your message below, we ask that messages be trimmed
of extra content and, equally important that they remain topical to
the list:
http://www.calorierestriction.org/node/130

As such, I am not sending this to the main list as proding someone
into a reply is not necessary (or can be done off-list if suitable).

-Tim C.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dyan Bufffa" <dsbuffa at sbcglobal.net>
To: "The CR Society Main Discussion List" <cr at lists.calorierestriction.org>
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 1:04 AM
Subject: Re: [CR] Resveratrol: Be somewhat cautious


> This should get Conrad going.  LOL
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "A. J. Shaka" <ajshaka at gmail.com>
> To: <CR at lists.calorierestriction.org>
> Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 4:23 PM
> Subject: [CR] Resveratrol: Be somewhat cautious
>
>
>> Dear Prospective Supplementers,
>>
>>  Although resveratrol has caught the media buzz as a potential
>> Bubbler of Youth, it's too early to pitch your tent in Mr. Roland's
>> camp.  The wise thing may be to just bide your time and watch... what
>> happens to him!  It doesn't cost you anything, and he's a willing
>> guinea pig.  And based on how it seems to hype him up, he'll be sure
>> to report each and every development.
>>
>>  Why would the conventional medical establishment be hesitant to
>> recommend untested, unvetted, unregulated resveratrol supplements,
>> especially when the compound might have pretty potent pharmacological
>> activity?  Haven't I just answered the question as I asked it?
>> Remember what happened to the Vioxx and Fen-Phen users?  And those
>> drugs were *supposed* to be safe, and were given under a physician's
>> guidance.
>>
>>  Waiting even 10 years won't matter much to you unless you're 60 or
>> older-- hell most of you are planning to live past 100, right?  And
>> that's prior to resveratrol, right?  So, if you're confident that CRON
>> is the "answer" to the ill-posed problem of how best to live (the
>> trivially superficial response being to focus on quantity rather than
>> quality), then why risk screwing everything up with a
>> Johnny-come-lately?
>>
>>  Nutritional chemistry/science is notoriously poor quality.  Top
>> talent is in other branches of chemistry.  So, even the best and
>> well-meaning studies may not be unequivocal.  And then there's the
>> other kind of study:  e.g. policosanol was undoubtedly pure fraud, yet
>> took in tons of suckers, and is still available--with the same
>> fraudulent claims on display.  The Cubans must have been having a real
>> laugh, figuring out how to turn dross to gold, taking their tons of
>> left over sugar cane fiber detritus and fobbing it off as a functional
>> food to lower LDL.  And they published their phony results numerous
>> times:
>>
>> Policosanol is better than a first generation statin:
>> Castano G, Mas R, Fernandez L, Gamez R, Illnait J.
>>  Effects of policosanol and lovastatin in patients with intermittent
>> claudication: a double-blind comparative pilot study.
>> Angiology. 2003 Jan;54(1):25-38.
>> PMID: 12593493
>>
>> Policosanol is great for the elderly with high TC:
>> Castano G, Mas R, Fernandez L, Illnait J, Mesa M, Alvarez E, Lezcay M.
>>  Comparison of the efficacy and tolerability of policosanol with
>> atorvastatin in
>> elderly patients with type II hypercholesterolaemia.
>> Drugs Aging. 2003;20(2):153-63.
>> PMID: 12534315
>>
>> Policosanol works in a double-blind study:
>> Castano G, Mas R, Fernandez L, Illnait J, Gamez R, Alvarez E.
>>  Effects of policosanol 20 versus 40 mg/day in the treatment of patients with
>> type II hypercholesterolemia: a 6-month double-blind study.
>> Int J Clin Pharmacol Res. 2001;21(1):43-57.
>> PMID: 11708574
>>
>> and then a host of other also-rans, who do no original work, but
>> merely summarize and trumpet the erroneous results of others come out.
>> Usually in crap journals, reviewed by orangoutans, like RevAltMed.
>> Strangely, once Mssrs. Castano, Fernandez and the rest of the wiley
>> Cubans aren't involved in the study, the results evaporate:
>>
>> Am J Clin Nutr. 2006 Dec;84(6):1543-8.
>>
>> Policosanol is ineffective in the treatment of hypercholesterolemia: a
>> randomized controlled trial.
>>
>> Dulin MF, Hatcher LF, Sasser HC, Barringer TA.
>>
>> Carolinas Medical Center Department of Family Medicine and Center for
>> Cardiovascular Health, Charlotte, NC, and The R Stuart Dickson Institute for
>> Health Studies, Charlotte, NC.
>>
>> BACKGROUND:
>> Policosanol is one of the fastest growing over-the-counter supplements
>> sold in the United States. (...)
>> OBJECTIVES:
>> This study investigated the efficacy of sugar cane-derived policosanol
>> in healthy adults with mild hypercholesterolemia.(...)
>> RESULTS:
>> No significant differences in the change in LDL cholesterol were observed
>> between the placebo (n = 20) and policosanol (n = 20) groups. Also, no
>> significant changes in secondary outcome measures, including total cholesterol,
>> HDL cholesterol, triacylglycerol, C-reactive protein, and nuclear magnetic
>> resonance spectroscopy-determined profiles were observed.(...)
>> CONCLUSION: Policosanol does not alter the serum lipid profile over an
>> 8-wk period in adults with mild hypercholesterolemia.
>>
>> PMID: 17158441
>>
>> and similarly:
>>
>> Am Heart J. 2006 Nov;152(5):982.e1-5.
>>
>> Comparative lipid-lowering effects of policosanol and atorvastatin: a
>> randomized, parallel, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial.
>>
>> Cubeddu LX, Cubeddu RJ, Heimowitz T, Restrepo B, Lamas GA, Weinberg GB.
>>
>> Division of Cardiology and Department of Internal Medicine, Mount Sinai Medical
>> Center, Miami Beach, FL 33140, USA.
>>
>> BACKGROUND: Policosanol, commonly derived from purified sugar cane
>> wax, has been reported to exert lipid-lowering effects. Policosanol is
>> available in the United
>> States as a nutritional supplement despite no US research clinical experience.
>> This trial was designed to rigorously establish the lipid-lowering efficacy of
>> policosanol as monotherapy and its potential additive and possibly synergistic
>> effects when added to statin therapy. METHODS: (...) RESULTS: A total
>> of 99 patients
>> were examined. Baseline characteristics were similar among all treatment groups.
>> Policosanol (20 mg/d for 12 weeks) did not significantly change plasma total
>> cholesterol, LDL-C, high-density lipoprotein cholesterol, or triglyceride levels
>> when compared with baseline values or with values of placebo-treated patients.
>> Atorvastatin (10 mg/d for 12 weeks) reduced total cholesterol by 27% and LDL-C
>> by 35%. Addition of policosanol to atorvastatin failed to produce any further
>> reduction in lipid levels above that of atorvastatin alone...
>> PMID: 17070175
>>
>> and there are plenty of other studies.  All policosanol does it put a
>> little load on your P450 enzymes which, if they were able to speak,
>> would say "Where did *this* come from?"
>>
>>  Here's the thing:  have you ever considered that what you're reading
>> is FRAUD?  Just pure and simple greed rearing its ugly head once
>> again?  If not, then go ahead and order every tablet, pill, and
>> unguent potion on the market.  Pay top dollar, too, so that your
>> policosanol doesn't go off.  For ultimate safety, buy yourself a -80
>> deg C freezer if you read that someone in a lab setting uses that
>> (they use that for everything, by the way).  And buy all the
>> nutritional and CR books and throw your hat into the extreme hardcore
>> CR ring, too, preferably BMI as low as you can stand.  Make sure
>> people stare, and then steel yourself against their well-meaning
>> idiocy "Gosh, you look ill-- are you sure you're okay?" with the
>> thought that you'll be dancing (gingerly) on their graves.  After all,
>> looking healthy is overrated, and just a cultural aberration.  Ahem.
>>
>>  Back to resveratrol.
>>
>>  The red flag for Sinclair is the establishment of a for-profit
>> company.  Objectivity then goes by the wayside, and the slightest
>> uptick in anything (good) will be reported because now real jobs
>> depend on the outcome.  Scientists, like the rest of us, want to
>> believe something great is around the corner.  And convincing the
>> agencies that something great IS around the corner is the basis of
>> securing funding, and hence surviving academically.  That's bad enough
>> already, but when commercial interests are involved as well, it's best
>> to wait for everything to verified in triplicate and by at least one
>> party that has no financial interest in the outcome.  There may in
>> fact be something good around the corner.  But wait until you can see
>> around the corner before you dash forward.  There could also be a
>> moving car.
>>
>>  There is an excellent article in PLoS that argues MOST medical
>> studies based on any kind of statistics are in fact incorrect.  You
>> can find it here:
>>
>> http://medicine.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-document&doi=10.1371/journal.pmed.0020124
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/ceq33
>>
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> A. J.
>> -- 
>> A. J. Shaka
>> Chemistry Department
>> University of California
>> Irvine, CA  92697-2025
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> CR at lists.calorierestriction.org
>> To change CR mailing list settings or unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.calorierestriction.org/mailman/listinfo/cr_lists.calorierestriction.org
>
>
>
>